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An article on Spiritual Abuse

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Re: An article on Spiritual Abuse

Postby nemesis » Wed Jun 19, 2013 3:35 pm

Chaplain Entrekin wrote:I think the church has, for a long period of its history, held a misguided dualistic view of man that separates man into half (figuratively) body and half soul. Many have used the key source text from Gen 2:7

“And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul,”


to support this Greek view of man’s dualism. This is more of an analytical view, whereas I hold to a more relational view, that sees man as basically a holistic.


I'd love to see you sit down with Thomas Aquinas, Rene Descartes and Gottfried Leibinz and explain to them how their view of man was misguided because their philosophies were based on a single sentence from the Bible.
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Re: An article on Spiritual Abuse

Postby Chaplain Entrekin » Wed Jun 19, 2013 5:30 pm

nemesis wrote:I'd love to see you sit down with Thomas Aquinas, Rene Descartes and Gottfried Leibinz and explain to them how their view of man was misguided because their philosophies were based on a single sentence from the Bible.


nemesis,

I would love to sit down with them as well. And it would need to include noted theologian, Charles Hodge (remember, the original question was re: "soul" as used in common parlance when discussing religious matters), along with them, arguing for the separation of body and soul. Though if this meeting could be arranged, I would prefer to silently have a seat, and listen to them converse/debate with those whom I am in agreement with: G.C. Berkouwer, H. Wheeler Robinson, G. Ernest Wright, Anthony Hoekema, Abraham Kuyper, D.H.Th. Vollenhoven, Herman Dooyeweerd, and F.F. Bruce (too name a few). This would be, not only a great conversation, but I am sure a great time of fellowship. You and I could sit together at a side table, within easy ear-shot, drinking beers and soaking it up. First rounds on me! (And only the first round. Those Dutch will drink me broke!)

But in regards to your statement, I feel I ought to clarify; I am not stating these men's view of philosophy was misguided due to misunderstanding one sentence (Gen 2:7). I am saying the long held religious view of the soul (as used in common parlance when discussing religious matters) was more derived from Hellenistic philosophy than from Hebraic scripture.

- Chap
I find your lack of faith...disturbing. -Darth Vader
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Re: An article on Spiritual Abuse

Postby nemesis » Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:00 pm

I feel I must apologize. My answer was a rather glib. The fact is that there are many schools of thought and I felt you were discounting some of the most influential Christian theologians and philosophers rather too easily.

Can I invite Ken Ham and Ray Comfort? I want to see Ken waving his bible at everyone, shouting 'show me where it says that???!!!!' and Ray trying to explain to Aquinas what a banana is and why he should use it as an argument for the existence of God.
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Re: An article on Spiritual Abuse

Postby Chaplain Entrekin » Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:09 pm

nemesis,

No need to apologize. Grace abounds. And I do agree with you that if I was trying to formally argue solely for my view as superior to all other historical Christian views, I have done so way too easily. I felt it was appropriately simplistic and brief enough for a forum post. And perhaps my replies were of interest enough to cause others here to research it more for themselves. Either way, your point is well taken and I agree with it.

You could invite Ken Ham and Ray Comfort if you really wanted to. I don't really consider either of them theologians or philosophers in the order of the others mentioned, so they would have to sit at the kids table with us. Rather than listen like you and I would, I fear they would interrupt. Perhaps we could spike their shirley temples.

- Chap
I find your lack of faith...disturbing. -Darth Vader
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Re: An article on Spiritual Abuse

Postby Chris » Thu Jun 20, 2013 7:10 am

nemesis wrote:and Ray trying to explain to Aquinas what a banana is and why he should use it as an argument for the existence of God.

:lol: You made my week with that line nemesis. Many, many thanks.
If perchance I have offended, think but this, and all is mended, that you have but slumbered here, while a vision did appear. A Midsummer Night's Dream
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Re: An article on Spiritual Abuse

Postby zilch » Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:06 am

Chris wrote:
nemesis wrote:and Ray trying to explain to Aquinas what a banana is and why he should use it as an argument for the existence of God.

:lol: You made my week with that line nemesis. Many, many thanks.

I'll second that one. And Tommy could regale Ray with his concept of the Hellevision set, where the blessed in Heaven can watch the writhings and gnashings of the damned in Hell, "so as to more perfectly enjoy the bliss of God". That's right up Ray's alley.
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Re: An article on Spiritual Abuse

Postby Chaplain Entrekin » Thu Jun 20, 2013 4:31 pm

zilch wrote: And Tommy could regale Ray with his concept of the Hellevision set, where the blessed in Heaven can watch the writhings and gnashings of the damned in Hell, "so as to more perfectly enjoy the bliss of God". That's right up Ray's alley.


Wow! That's just terrible. One of the worst misunderstandings/misapplication/made up garbage of the afterlife I have ever heard. Yeah, nemesis, let's not invite these guys. But anyone from this site is welcome to overhear that discussion on the soul. Like I said, first rounds on me.

- Chap
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Re: An article on Spiritual Abuse

Postby zilch » Thu Jun 20, 2013 5:00 pm

Well, chap, as you might expect, I don't find Aquinas' interpretation here any more "misunderstood" than any other description of the afterlife, another field for which there is no subject matter. But yeah, he had a bee in his bonnet.
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Re: An article on Spiritual Abuse

Postby lehman scott » Fri Jun 21, 2013 10:04 am

Hi, Chap. Sorry for my dropping out of the convo here, i'm kind of preoccupied on a project right now.

To be honest, i'm not really very interested and certainly not at all adept or well-versed in the type of philosophical arguments y'all seem to be enjoying. When it comes right down to it, i am a materialist. I do not believe in the existence of some non-physical entity called a soul that exists apart from our physical brains and that persists after we die in any form. There is just no verifiable, objective, and repeatable physical evidence for the existence of such a thing. The "soul" is nothing more than a fabrication of our minds, which are in turn a result of nothing more than neuronal electrochemical activities in our physical brains. Just like God.

That being said, I'll now respectfully and officially bow out of the conversation you fine gentlefolk are having on the topic, as it appears i really have nothing useful to contribute to it.

Take care and have a great day, Sir!

lehman s.
Change will not come if we wait for some other person or some other time. We are the ones we've been waiting for. We are the change that we seek.
- - Barack Obama

Pessimism of the Intellect; Optimism of the Will.
- - Antonio Gramsci
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Re: An article on Spiritual Abuse

Postby zilch » Fri Jun 21, 2013 10:28 am

lehman scott wrote:That being said, I'll now respectfully and officially bow out of the conversation you fine gentlefolk are having on the topic, as it appears i really have nothing useful to contribute to it.

Take care and have a great day, Sir!

lehman s.

That's sticking it to him, lehman!
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