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Win $1000 From the Discovery Institute!!

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Win $1000 From the Discovery Institute!!

Postby lehman scott » Wed Sep 14, 2011 5:18 pm

This has got to be silliest challenge I have ever seen...
ID is often disparaged as “creationism in a cheap tuxedo.” One assumes the point being made is that ID is a stalking horse for theistic creationists. Now, as has been explained on this site many times, while many ID proponents are theists, ID itself stands apart from theistic belief. For the umpteenth time, ID does not posit a supernatural designer. Nor does ID posit any suspension of the laws of nature.
To drive this point home UD is going to put its money where its mouth is. UD hereby offers a $1,000 prize to anyone who is able to demonstrate that the design of a living thing by an intelligent agent necessarily requires a supernatural act (i.e., the suspension of the laws of nature).


Some of the many comments are hilarious.

http://www.uncommondescent.com/intellig ... -00-prize/
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Re: Win $1000 From the Discovery Institute!!

Postby BaldySlaphead » Wed Sep 14, 2011 6:08 pm

Update: Some commenters have gotten bogged down on whether an immaterial mind counts as supernatural. The answer is “no.” If an immaterial mind counts as supernatural and all intelligent agents including humans have immaterial minds, then all volitional acts of all intelligent agents would be supernatural acts. That’s a silly way to construe the word “supernatural.” It is not how the word is used in ordinary English usage and it is not how the word is used for purposes of this contest. Resolving the hard problem of consciousness is not necessary for this contest. Therefore, we will simply avoid it, and contestants shall operate under the assumption I made in this post. Specifically, I wrote: “Therefore, I am going to make a bold assumption for the sake of argument. Let us assume for the sake of argument that intelligent agents do NOT have free will, i.e., that the tertium quid does not exist. Let us assume instead, for the sake of argument, that the cause of all activity of all intelligent agents can be reduced to physical causes.”



FFS!
Last edited by BaldySlaphead on Fri Sep 16, 2011 7:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Win $1000 From the Discovery Institute!!

Postby Quasar » Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:29 pm

Bah! It's so easy, too:

"If the specified complexity of biological life (let alone an intelligent mind) is such that "requires" a designer, then by their logic that designer would also require it's own designer (unless they concede the possiblity of Abiogenesis, which I've never seen them do). Given the limited span of the universe, it is impossible for this to continue indefinately. Ergo, at some point the designer must be external to the universe, ie. supernatural."

Here's a better question. Which has more explanitory power and is better supported by the evidence: the various theories of abiogenesis and evolution from first principles, or "designer did it"?
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Re: Win $1000 From the Discovery Institute!!

Postby zilch » Thu Sep 15, 2011 5:59 am

Quasar wrote:Here's a better question. Which has more explanitory power and is better supported by the evidence: the various theories of abiogenesis and evolution from first principles, or "designer did it"?

"Designer did it" has more explanatory power: it explains everything. And all those little bits we don't understand are evidence for "designer did it" too. Therefore, "designer did it".

edit- I just read some of the comments, and it's quite a ride. I especially liked DrBot- for instance, he explained, in a way any idiot could understand, why the "monkeys at typewriters" metaphor is disanalogous to evolution- but they still didn't get it.
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Re: Win $1000 From the Discovery Institute!!

Postby caligulathegod » Thu Sep 15, 2011 7:39 am

Immaterial minds don't count as supernatural?! Holy shit, way to frame your god in while pretending not to! Humans have immaterial minds? Tell that to the people with brain damage that affects their memories and personalities. Disingenuous twats.
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Re: Win $1000 From the Discovery Institute!!

Postby Vagon » Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:11 am

Resolving the hard problem of consciousness is not necessary for this contest


Because we've already done it for you! Your conciousness is immaterial, now don't ask questions.
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Re: Win $1000 From the Discovery Institute!!

Postby IntellectualNinja » Fri Sep 16, 2011 7:43 am

If you had 1,000 monkeys at a typewriter creating random pattern, and if every time a monkey gets a sequence right it gets added to a page, given a short amount of time (geologically) then you would indeed end up with a work of Shakesphere.
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Re: Win $1000 From the Discovery Institute!!

Postby zilch » Fri Sep 16, 2011 7:50 am

IntellectualNinja wrote:If you had 1,000 monkeys at a typewriter creating random pattern, and if every time a monkey gets a sequence right it gets added to a page, given a short amount of time (geologically) then you would indeed end up with a work of Shakesphere.

That is indeed precisely why the monkeys at typewriters metaphor is disanalogous to evolution: it leaves out natural selection, which is anything but random. And this is something that fundies simply seem not to get.

As caligula points out, there's also some confusion at UD over what an "immaterial" entity or thing could possibly be, if it's not "supernatural". I commented on this there, but I doubt it will penetrate the confusion. I find that a lot of the confusion is cleared up by simply regarding "immaterial" entities (such as the laws of gravity or mathematics) as descriptions of relationships, rather than "things". Then one is not so tempted to say that we must have "immaterial" minds in order to apprehend the "immaterial things".
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Re: Win $1000 From the Discovery Institute!!

Postby Whateverman » Fri Sep 16, 2011 2:35 pm

Pinky! Glad to see you again, iNinja

PS. I still watch that frikkin video once a week. The music video's great, too
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