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Lengthy Interview with William Dembski 1-14-2012

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Lengthy Interview with William Dembski 1-14-2012

Postby lehman scott » Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:19 am

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Re: Lengthy Interview with William Dembski 1-14-2012

Postby zilch » Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:00 am

I’m an old-earth creationist, so I accept that the earth and universe are billions of years old. Young-earth creationism, which is the more traditional view, holds that the earth is only thousands of years old.

The reason this divergence between young-earth and old-earth creationists is relevant to the problem of evil is that Christians have traditionally believed that both moral and natural evil are a consequence of the fall of humanity. But natural evil, such as animals killing and parasitizing each other, would predate the arrival of humans on the scene if the earth is old and animal life preceded them. So, how could their suffering be a consequence of human sin and the Fall? My solution is to argue that the Fall had retroactive effects in history (much as the salvation of Christ on the Cross acts not only forward in time to save people now, but also backward in time to save the Old Testament saints).

I'd love to have me some magical explanations for hard stuff too.
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Re: Lengthy Interview with William Dembski 1-14-2012

Postby Godlesspanther2 » Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:47 pm

zilch wrote:
I’m an old-earth creationist, so I accept that the earth and universe are billions of years old. Young-earth creationism, which is the more traditional view, holds that the earth is only thousands of years old.

The reason this divergence between young-earth and old-earth creationists is relevant to the problem of evil is that Christians have traditionally believed that both moral and natural evil are a consequence of the fall of humanity. But natural evil, such as animals killing and parasitizing each other, would predate the arrival of humans on the scene if the earth is old and animal life preceded them. So, how could their suffering be a consequence of human sin and the Fall? My solution is to argue that the Fall had retroactive effects in history (much as the salvation of Christ on the Cross acts not only forward in time to save people now, but also backward in time to save the Old Testament saints).

I'd love to have me some magical explanations for hard stuff too.



Creationists definitely get the bronze, silver, and the gold medal in mental gymnastics. I love how the manage to completely lose any sort of clue as to how chronology works in order to make excuses for their excuses.

Of course the Spanish Inquisition had nothing to do with Christianity -- it was Charles Darwin's fault. And, of course, it was those damn Catholics who crucified Jesus.

I did not make those two up -- I am repeating actual, genuine fundie-isms.
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Re: Lengthy Interview with William Dembski 1-14-2012

Postby Stoned Immaculate » Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:22 am

zilch wrote:
I’m an old-earth creationist, so I accept that the earth and universe are billions of years old. Young-earth creationism, which is the more traditional view, holds that the earth is only thousands of years old.

The reason this divergence between young-earth and old-earth creationists is relevant to the problem of evil is that Christians have traditionally believed that both moral and natural evil are a consequence of the fall of humanity. But natural evil, such as animals killing and parasitizing each other, would predate the arrival of humans on the scene if the earth is old and animal life preceded them. So, how could their suffering be a consequence of human sin and the Fall? My solution is to argue that the Fall had retroactive effects in history (much as the salvation of Christ on the Cross acts not only forward in time to save people now, but also backward in time to save the Old Testament saints).

I'd love to have me some magical explanations for hard stuff too.


I'm sitting here thinking to myself, what's more irrational, YEC or OEC? I mean, it's one thing to just deny nearly all science as the YECists do, but retroactive effects in history? That's just, out there.
With a name like Smucker's, it has to be god.
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Re: Lengthy Interview with William Dembski 1-14-2012

Postby Vagon » Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:07 am

Its funny hey, the more bullshit you throw out there, the more questions bounce back - every magical answer bounces back another 5-10 legitimate questions.
"Jesus said its gonna be alright; he's gonna pack my bags so I can walk in the light; you don't mind if I abuse myself so I can hold my head up?" The Choirboys
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Re: Lengthy Interview with William Dembski 1-14-2012

Postby zilch » Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:10 am

Stoned Immaculate wrote:I'm sitting here thinking to myself, what's more irrational, YEC or OEC? I mean, it's one thing to just deny nearly all science as the YECists do, but retroactive effects in history? That's just, out there.

I don't think Demski's retroactive fallout theory is widespread among OECs. But of course there are additional severe problems in reconciling an old Earth and common ancestry (which Dembski supports) with the Genesis account. And once you start admitting that parts of the Bible are metaphorical, where do you stop? There's a smooth gradient of scripture from obviously metaphorical (Peter is a rock) through uncertain (the four corners of the Earth, the Sun rising), to stuff obviously intended as bare fact (Jesus wept), and no obvious place to draw lines.
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Re: Lengthy Interview with William Dembski 1-14-2012

Postby Felix » Sat May 19, 2012 7:04 pm

Just because someone mentioned ID:
Image
Eugenie Scott and me
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Re: Lengthy Interview with William Dembski 1-14-2012

Postby E-lad » Sat May 19, 2012 7:26 pm

Felix wrote:Just because someone mentioned ID:
Eugenie Scott and me


I'm so jelly!
Life is a comedy for those who think, and a tragedy for those who feel.- Horace Walpole
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Re: Lengthy Interview with William Dembski 1-14-2012

Postby zilch » Sun May 20, 2012 2:17 pm

Felix is Da Man! Oh, and just in case no one has seen this yet, with a cameo appearance by Eugenie:

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Re: Lengthy Interview with William Dembski 1-14-2012

Postby CriticalEye » Sun Aug 12, 2012 4:08 am

zilch wrote:
I’m an old-earth creationist, so I accept that the earth and universe are billions of years old. Young-earth creationism, which is the more traditional view, holds that the earth is only thousands of years old.

The reason this divergence between young-earth and old-earth creationists is relevant to the problem of evil is that Christians have traditionally believed that both moral and natural evil are a consequence of the fall of humanity. But natural evil, such as animals killing and parasitizing each other, would predate the arrival of humans on the scene if the earth is old and animal life preceded them. So, how could their suffering be a consequence of human sin and the Fall? My solution is to argue that the Fall had retroactive effects in history (much as the salvation of Christ on the Cross acts not only forward in time to save people now, but also backward in time to save the Old Testament saints).

I'd love to have me some magical explanations for hard stuff too.


That made my day! Thanks for the laugh.
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